Kingdom Noise Apprenticeship

MODULE 2 || STAGE 2 by seancooper
October 3, 2008, 1:03 am
Filed under: Uncategorized

The End of Poverty has opened up a lot of great thinking and discussion. Its interesting how much this topic stirs so much among those who hope there is a better solution for the poorest of the poor. Let’s keep reading, talking, and especially finding ways to serve those around us this week.

Describe how the issues of poverty and social injustice have changed and why.

Based on Jeffrey D. Sachs outline of why some countries fail to thrive, how have you seen this firsthand in some part of the world?

Is the Church a viable means for macro change? How?


4 Comments so far
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1. Well it was a real eye opener for me to see that all countries were poor in the beginning of the 18th century. Most of the world population seemed to have been trapped by poverty and social immobility. I find it hopeful that for some countries these realities could change through economic growth. It makes change more possible when concrete examples exist of how to also bring growth in these areas to the extremely poor. My mindset around these issues have changed from a fatalistic view of “that is the way it is” to a … “here is how we can grow”…

2.Well a good examle of geopolitics being a barrer to growth in SA was during the apartheid era. Sanctions created limitation in our growth. It was definatly motivated the rate of eventual change to a free society.

3. The church for macro change. First , I think the church would have to become realistic about the practicalities involved in macro change. I think we have now realised that preaching is not enough. We need to express the truth of his justice and compassion in relevant and creative ways. Why can’t we get organised and spread a technology like clean drinking water? We have the unifying bond of a common faith to overcome cultural barries. We are prevalent in so many communities. We have to get creative and organised!!! World Vision, the Salvation Army etc is good example of organisations, that at the very least, are globally recognised for their work.

Comment by heidigrundlingh

1. As Heidi said: for me also it was good to know, that everyone was poor around the 18th century. I was just wondering, what was it, that made the one going forward and grow and the others not. Very interesting also how Britan was like the guinea pig for economic growth.
I think a big issue back in those days was that the people didnt care about each other (countries), everyone was in the middst of there own problems. By the time they realized that the others need help the gap between them got really big, maybe too big?
But now we are in the position, to know what and how we can work it out even its going to be hard. The understanding of poverty is different and we should use our knowledge.

2. well here I think about eastern europe. Especially countries like Czech Republic, Romania or Poland. Their biggest barrer was communism. it started out well, but by the time they realized it would not work it was too late. People lost hope in their goverment and where not free at all to try to change it. People got stagned in their way of doing things and even in their thinking. FAITH was not allowed so no hope at all. Everything was for everyone, but nothing was for yourself. The weird part of it is, that a lot of the communistic countries had economic growth in the beginng, because of bad power and using people, but there was no growth for the individual.

3. I think defenitly YES but also NO. First of all we need to stop only talking about it, we need to DO things.
Dont get me wrong here, but its not enough to say: well lets pray for the poor and make them believers and then God will figure it out. YES our prayers are strong and we (the church) will change it but only if we actually go and DO. The church can and will give hope and strength to every singular person and thats a big big need all over the world, not only in the 3rd world countries, because there are different types of poverty anyway.
The second thing is that we (the church) need to change our attitude in thinking we can change it. not being smart about it, getting humble and let God lead us to do it his way.
so its a YES we can and a NO, we cant only God can.

Comment by Christine

How the issues of social injustice have changed and why:
Don´t you like to think that little things doesn´t matter. Well here we see it, how a little difference of about 0.8 percent in growth rate annually can make such a big difference after 200 years. Countries who are nowadays way behind seem like people who can´t get out of their long time unemployment. Was in about 100years ago colonialism who brought injustice is it now lack of knowledge, technologies, etc… . Here we have the new type of injustice: We´re all talking about giving money to the poor, releasing their debths. This seems so easy, but does it really help? It helps us in knowing that poor countries are dependent on us, which is injust. They need our knowledge, technologies so that they have a chance in this world.

Two years ago I was in Cuba, as you know it´s a communist country. That´s probably the main reason why they´re doing so badly. What I´ve seen is a very good soil, talented people, good land for tourism… . But communism made people lazy, not everyone. But compared to Germans are Cubans lazy. The day they get a good democratic system this land will thrive so badly everyone will be shocked.

I think the church is a viable means for macro change. There are smart people in the church who are able to do great things. And I don´t mean theologically things. We can bring information, technologies to the poor. Our second command is to love our neighbors like ourselves. We learn how to use information and technology for our good, then we need to also show it to others.

Comment by andibinder

That is an interesting article in the New York Times about the economic crisis in Iceland. It brings up the geopolitical factors related to poverty because Iceland is an island which has to import almost all the its food.

I thought it was interesting as well that all countries were considered poor before the 18 hundreds. He sights the Industrial Revolution for being a huge factor in economic growth and he mentions political changes such as democracy as helping this, but I wonder if it didn’t contribute more than he is saying. It seems that before those kind of changes a lot of the wealth was tied up in the hands of the few rich rulers and land owners (sounds like developing countries today, nay?… thats for Heidi : ). Without political changes that would help ensure a redistribution of wealth from industry that could’ve remained the case for a lot longer… as it does in countries were there aren’t strong unions and governmental standards in place that help ensure a more equitable distribution of wealth. Even now companies try to side-step those standards by doing business in poor countries (which is good because it provides jobs there, but we should not be content with that).

About the church’s role… I absolutely believe we should be apart of macro-change. Ultimately we will be the primary vehicle for that change, that is promised to us in Christ’s death and life. But we are also supposed to be apart of that change now (haha sounds like an Obama speech *slight cringe at linking Obama and Christ*). One of the things that Christ proclaimed was Jubilee, good news for the poor (redistributing wealth in the Jubilee year!) and the release of debts. This is something God wanted his people to do, but was never fully practiced because people’s sense of “fairness” didn’t include giving up hard earned wealth and the releasing of captives and slaves. God asked us to do it though, so He must think it is just (maybe our sense of fairness is skewed then, eh?). We then, as the church, should be proclaiming that jubilee, living generous lives and advocating for things like debt relief.

Comment by Sarah Lynne

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